Friday, June 09, 2006

Is this it?

We've had a five weeks combined outage at this point, and now chat is apparently down too. Nobody knows whether it's for real this time, and quite possible we'll never get a definite word on that matter. However, it's becoming increasingly obvious that exiled Plasticians everywhere need to start thinking seriously about a Plan B. Everyone can't just hang around this lowly blog forever. I can't think of anything more depressing than us having the same discussions about when the servers are going to be back up in etc. in half a year from now.

So let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that Carl came down from the heavenly server room where we like to believe he spends his time and said once and for all that he's pulled the plug, won't relaunch the site in some other shape, and won't give away the code, ever. Then what?


Anonymous Anonymous said...

Though I only posted trolls
You had the grace to hold yourself
While those around you crawled
They crawled out of the woodwork
And they whispered into your brain
They set you on the treadmill
And forty thou they drained

And it seems to me you run your site
like a windows sysadmin
never knowing when to reboot
or where the lead plugs in
And I would have liked to help
but I don't give a shit
Carl Steadman burned out long before
Plastic ever did.

Loneliness was tough
The toughest role you ever played
Internet created a superstar
And pain was the price you paid
Even when you died
Karma whores still hounded you
All the blogs had to say
Was that Carl doesn't know what to do

From the biggest troll in top karma list
Who sees you as something as more than discussion
More than just a karma fix

3:43 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is the handiwork of the cabal! Carl Steadman has been selected to be one of Zarqawi's virgins up in Paradise.

3:57 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

MeFi? I only came to Plastic years back because MetaFilter was never accepting new members. Plastic filled the need for (mostly) intelligent discussion so well I never went back. Now MeFi memberships are open for a five buck processing fee. Wonder what the cash value conversion rate on karma is?

5:38 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'd be happy to build a new plastic analogue for some minimal compensation to justify the loss of video-game time. Maybe 1-2K. The basic features are quite simple and it would only take a month or so of very part-time work to get something passable.

But I would not be interested in hosting once it was up and solid. I doubt my POS dev server could handle any kind of serious traffic.

5:47 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is there any chance of gathering the faithful together to raise the funding to get the new Plastic up and running? I'd throw in, but no chance I could help with anything else. A pay for play Plastic? some of us would join surely...
- kiwiana

6:12 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Slashcode has gotten pretty nifty since Plastic was forked, Drupal is also quite nifty.

6:13 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Time for Plan B? I concluded that it was time for Plan B after a week's worth of the second outage. I imparted this to one of my plastic pals via an email, essentially saying that, even if plastic came back I wouldn't. Now it appears that carl has made my staying away from plastic a little easier to do.

If the purpose of this thread is to alert us to the next best version of plastic, I'm afraid you're wasting your time. In my mind plastic was unique and the whole fit and feel to the site can't ever be duplicated anywhere else on the web. So, what I'm saying is go out and find someplace that suits your vibe and enjoy yourself but don't ever take it too seriously.

I'm going to post my thoughts and feelings about the loss of plastic here one time, and one time only. These are my opinions and they might vary greatly from how you feel but I'm not about to come bouncing in and out of this blog to discuss the matter any further.

I had a great time on plastic. It was a real treat and an honor to be able to contribute to plastic when it was in fine fettle and operating at its best. I'll always think fondly on the many personalities I encountered here. I know I made some enemies on the site, but I believe I made more friends than I did adversaries. I apologize for nothing I did on the site because I believe I have nothing to apologize for.

As for carl, I wish him well and hope he manages to grow out of this experience. I will allow feeling more than a little betrayed by the fact that he couldn't at least reach out to those Plasticians, such as myself and the editors, who stood by him and supported the site over the years, but he didn't so there you are.

I've only infrequently tripped into chat during the outage and that was simply to find out if there was any news about the site. I was caught by the breakdown in reactions to what was going on. There were the stalwarts, acting as if carl really was moving the servers to a new location, ready to defend the outage as being necessary and ready to issue a STFU to any and all naysayers. There were the naysayers who, when they weren't expressing glee at plastic's outage, would engage in impromptu psychoanalyis of carl offering their interpretations as to his mental state. There were the mystified and clueless (I count myself in this category) who were totally in the dark as to what was going on and doing our best to keep up hope that the site would be back. But I think the prevailing sentiment (even among the naysayers) was that something precious and worthwhile in our lives had left the room. I guess it's left for good.

The fact is that life existed for all of us before plastic happened onto our consciousness. And life will go on with its passing. I'll find things to do and people to see and places to go. I hope and trust all of you will do as well.


7:05 AM

Anonymous Tomboko said...

Sigh. I really did love Plastic.

I didn't comment very often, but I voted in the subqueue and obsessively read Plastic every day. I loved getting all the different perspectives on the news and underlying issues. And I enjoyed some of the wacky personality combinations. For example, it's not as though Ms_Sue and Remo1 could ever convince each other of anything, but it was rather entertaining to watch them try.

If Plastic doesn't ever return, I am mournful and bereft. Bummed, if you will. I'm sorry that whatever problems Carl is having are too much for the continued existence of dear old Plastic. But there you are. What's to be done? I miss it, but as time passes without it I'll miss it a little less. (If it does come back, I'll be back on it in a heartbeat. But my hopes are flagging.)

(looking for some upside...) I suppose I'll have a lot more time for my own writing now...

Best of luck to Carl and everyone.

7:36 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I would just note that still sends out the code to set up the java version of chat for the browser. The only problem is that it refuses connections. This could mean that carl's tinkering with it, or it could mean that he's simply driving folks away without bothering to explain himself, as per speculation about the website. Naturally, nobody really knows, and everyone will weigh in with an opinion. But pronouncing the death of all things Plastic sure seems fruitless, and based more on hurt feelings than any information.

One thing that strikes me is how so many folks will say things about sites that have been gone for years, such as, to the effect of "boy, if they only would bring back I'd be there in a minute." Folks crying about how they never would come back to Plastic started after Plastic was down for a week. Apparently the "specialness" of Plastic only ran skin deep for most folks.

For what it's worth, if Plastic were down for another month and a half, and came back up with no explanation from carl, I'd go back and contribute and post. Because I enjoy the format and the people and stories themselves. Not because I felt Plastic owed me something or I owed it something (substitute "carl" for "Plastic" if you care to, the sentiment remains the same). As MAYORBOB said, it's only a website, and if it's gone for good, that's sad, but not really a problem. On the other hand, if it comes back up, that attitude holds as well. In my personal opinion, the folks who want to "leave forever, never to return" probably should have left long before this-- you've taken yourselves and the site far too seriously.

So. Sorry you've hit the skids, Plastic/carl. I hope you get your act together, and I will check in on you occasionally. And if you really need to change yourself in order to move forward with your life, no hard feelings.

7:51 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'd be willing to pay for hosting & make Plastic happen. I believe it was based on open source code. And, of course, Slashcode is also available as a basis.

If you're serious about making Plastic happen again, let's talk.

- Thalia

7:56 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

7:56 AM

Anonymous Port1080 said...

For what it's worth, if Plastic were down for another month and a half, and came back up with no explanation from carl, I'd go back and contribute and post. Because I enjoy the format and the people and stories themselves. Not because I felt Plastic owed me something or I owed it something (substitute "carl" for "Plastic" if you care to, the sentiment remains the same). As MAYORBOB said, it's only a website, and if it's gone for good, that's sad, but not really a problem. On the other hand, if it comes back up, that attitude holds as well. In my personal opinion, the folks who want to "leave forever, never to return" probably should have left long before this-- you've taken yourselves and the site far too seriously.

That essentially sums up my opinion as well. If plastic's around, excellent, if not, life goes on.

To those thinking about setting up another site - I'd give it a week or so yet before you get too into it. It would rather be a problem if you dumped a lot of money into and then plastic did come back.

8:10 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've been trying this Newsvine deal. It's packed full of nice features, but really lacks the user base to make it a happening community.

If we all migrated there, we could practically take the place over!

8:19 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

8:26 AM

Anonymous WMK said...

Well, I can't connect to plastic chat or plastic and that pretty much spells 'The End' AFAIK.

It has been weeks of outage and cryptic chat room appearances by Carl where very little was learned beyond his describing himself as being 'drug addicted' and there being a need to move the Plastic servers.

Speculation: he didn't mean it in the conventional 'I'm a smacked up junkie or toothless meth-head' sense, he meant it as a combined expression of:
1)He has a diagnosed psychological 'condition'
2) he relies on prescription medication to ameliorate/attenuate the 'symptoms'
3) he is filled with self loathing over his weakness/dependancy on such a 'crutch'
4)he enjoys garnering attention/sympathy/confused specualtion as to what the fuck the things he say's mean - being an enigma can be fun, having an audience of a few thousand diverse and occaisionally intelligent people pondering and puzzling over the entrails and tea leaves of gnomic mystery you choose to dribble out in chat.

Speculation is merely guessing at what lies behind the curtain, who knows what actually happened/happens to Carl? Good luck to him in dealing with whatever he has to.

I really enjoyed Plastic while it lasted, the meeting of folks from various walks of life offered a great opportunity to expand ones perspective on just about all topics. Unlike most messageboards/news aggregate sites there was no unified moderating 'agenda' being served resulting in a place where right, left and every other axiomatic political/social/religious/sexual stance had an opportunity to be expressed and sometimes usefully explored/debated. Instead of a tightly policed echo chamber of group-think (as most boards seem to be)the moderation system at plastic provided for minority and even unpopular opinions/beliefs to be expressed. The genius of the moderation system was that it naturally resisted/discouraged the tendancy seen elsewhere for discussions to devolve into mindless flame-fests and poop-flinging although it allowed enough freedom for these things to occur (as they increasingly did towards the end).

It would be helpful if anyone who found this blog were to post suggestions as to other sites that might in some way replace Plastic.
I will make do with DialyKos, kuro5hin, slashdot, wiki + google + yahoo news aggregates but none of these offer particularly palatable comparison to Plastic.

Good Luck Plasticians - wherever you are.

8:29 AM

Anonymous Territan said...

I was a relative newcomer (ending k<300), I tried to fit in, and I got a few submissions in. If that's ended, then I could go back to Slashdot... or perhaps it is time for something new.

I would like to do something for the future. Something simultaneously in tribute and to move forward. We could plan here, or somehow through Frappr...

9:05 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Whatever happens I hope he keeps the URL. Someone mentioned something about turning it into some hard-to-starbord neocon site? I hope that doesn't happen!

9:08 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I second the comment.

Although I would much prefer Plastic to be back up - and would love it if Thalia were able to do as she offered.


9:41 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Steadman, Carl
1906 Jackson St, Apt 16
Oakland, CA 94612-4652
(510) 832-1612

9:48 AM

Anonymous maml said...


Well, if a new Plastic gets started, I'll be there in a flash.

I'll be back for the old Plastic too.

anonymous trollers, you've now been around long enough to count as "old timers" as much as me or the Mayor.

10:01 AM

Blogger Logan said...

The last word I got was that Carl was still working out hardware issues and moving servers. Fun fact: Moving servers on BART is difficult, time-consuming, and expensive. Chat being down isn't a great sign, but I'm holding out hope. As always, I am available to haul servers and configure Apache.

To those who are still waiting for my Plastic Music Exchange cds, I swear I put them in the mail.

Here's a thought: If Carl suddently puts up a page on Plastic that says "Plastic is gone. I'm sick of the trolls and the abuse." How will you feel? How many will mourn the discussion? How many will look for another place to troll and start flamewars? How many will scream "Yippie! I killed Plastic!"

I'm proud of every post I made on Plastic. Every comment, every story. Can anyone else say the same?


10:03 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Then what? Then maybe I'd get some fuckin' work done for a change. I missed Plastic a lot, but in a way its demise is the best thing that's happened to my productivity levels since Prozac.

10:40 AM

Blogger monkey said...

Maybe what Carl really needs is to take Plastic out into the woods, snuff it with a clean, merciful shot to the back of the head, and feel a suddenly blissful, guilt-free lightness in his step as he walks home to begin the rest of his life.

There was a post-WiReD era; there was a post-Suck era; and there will also be a post-Plastic era.

We'll all be fine.

Go take care of Carl, Carl. And thanks for half a decade's worth of Plastic.


11:02 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

This may sound mighty weird, but I don't really care that Plastic is gone. In fact, I think it might even be a good thing, because now the community could start afresh, with a new site not plagued by the problems so many people found with the old one. And, let's face it, Plastic was slowly dying, in the sense that old members were occasionally leaving, but new members never joined.

Don't view this as a tragedy, see it as a possibility. And, for someone, somewhere, even a business opportunity. Here's a community, fully alive and vibrant, most of whom would gladly pay a minor sum to get back together on a message board that could be hacked together in a week. It's just a question of time before someone does it. Let's make sure we do it right by then.

PS. Yeah, I know Plastic isn't surely dead yet. But the premise of this thread was that it was, so that's the spirit I'm posting in.

11:05 AM

Anonymous thefadd said...


Anonymous 5:47am... I am serious and could see my way to paying for some coding help. Get in touch.

Thalia... I am serious although I think we're both bringing the same thing to the table -- hosting. Anyway, we should talk. My email address is pretty easy to figure out.

Personally, I think news of plastic's demise is greatly exagerated. It's been down for longer than this before. I think I started to tear up at the idea of plastic being gone for good. I took a look at newsvine and like every other plastic competitor out there, it's just too cluttered. I know some complained about the slow posting time of breaking news but I loved plastic's newsmagazine feel. That kind of analysis exists so few places on the web...

I'm proud of every post I made on Plastic. Every comment, every story. Can anyone else say the same? -=Logan

Logan, are you serious? That's awfully snotty.

11:13 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

thefadd: Give me some method to get in touch other than spamming and I'd be happy to discuss.

-AI codegeek

11:32 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Plastic's not dead... it's just pining for the fjords.

11:32 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Doubtful that Carl is reading this, but I did want to give out a big thank-you not only for and, but especially for being obtuse and weirdly hip enough to get me interested in modern philosophy.

My only problem with was that I didn't nearly have the time I had at the start to create really well-written posts. I've always had a great admiration for the fantastic writing and dry humor of, and it was my hope that through we'd all become Sucksters of sorts. In the end the quality of my posts decreased and so did the quantity until I only visited infrequently to check the Quick Links.

I wish Carl & all the Sucksters & my fellow Plasticians the best. Remember, this isn't so much the disillusion of as it is the dissolution of the Plastician/non-Plastician internet(s).


12:59 PM

Anonymous AnonIdiot22 said...

Can anyone help?

I'm looking for a certain specialist website.

Specifically, pornography. Involving ducks.


1:01 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I called that Oakland number and no one picked up. I let it ring 20 or 30 times just to be sure. So much for that. Maybe someone in the Bay Area should knock on his door.

1:30 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The fact that the phone rang is actually a good sign. It means that someone is actually paying for that number. If it is carl, then the possibility exists that he is simply not in his apartment when the call was made. I guess it wouldn't hurt to go to the apartment to see if he actually still lives there. Unfortunately a continent separates me from carl's address.

1:52 PM

Blogger shane said...

I have a hosting company, unused space and an available domain. I'm going to install the latest version of slash and invite the old plastic community to make use of it. If ever comes back online I'll direct people to the old site.

I miss the great writing from the original website and would love to see the talented group of contributers be able to continue their work.

I'll setup the site on my unused domain - If you can do a css layout for the new site please send it to me.

Should be ready to go by Monday.

2:23 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...


Sounds like a solid. Just a thought here before you commit to doing all of this. Unless the site adopts the mefi protocol of running anything that gets submitted, you're going to need to think about stuff like editors and some sort of preview of submissions to make sure you're not getting dreck (believe me, the stuff that ran on plastic was the tippy top of the iceberg in terms of the quality of submissions). Also, you might want to think about formulating some sort of plan to insure you gain the revenues needed to make the site pay for itself.

Frankly, waiting a bit to iron out some of these details seems like the rational thing to do. I think one of the things the old plastic experience taught a lot of us was not to lay all our eggs in the basket of a person who was doing it out of a sense of building some sort of altruistic, utopian community.

I have no coding skillz, so I'd be a useless appendage in setting up the architecture of the site, but I appreciate your willingness to pitch in and get things rolling again.

2:48 PM

Blogger shane said...

Running a few google ads as well as a link to my hosting company will pay for costs. Anyone who doesn't want to see ads can block them, or perhaps have the option of subscribing style.

I have spent a bit of time reading about installing slash - it is not as easy as I imagined it would be - however I'll give it a shot on a dev server and see how it goes.

Editors are important - the submission queue comments were one of my favorite parts of the site. I'd like to see the same group of editors running the site.

I've created a mailing list for those who want to help with the planing... picking editors, publishing site address, coding etc...

I'd like to get it up and running as soon as possible, before the community disperses...

3:13 PM

Anonymous port1080 said...

The link for Shane's mailing list doesn't render properly - anyone who wishes can access it by clicking here

4:33 PM

Anonymous ms_sue_collins said...

I've read the obits here now and would like to add my fervent hope that they are premature.

But at the risk of being trite, nothing lasts forever. So I hope that the smart ones among us can figure something out so that we might continue our Discussion, no matter the topic.

I miss your voices -- the wit, the intelligence and, hell, even the insults.

So if Plastic comes up, I'll be there. If it doesn't, there is no reason why such a diverse and talented group can't provide a new home, one to which I would be honored to subscribe.

4:41 PM

Anonymous thefadd said...

At CaptainLiberal's suggestion, I've created a wiki and a webchat for those interested in working on plastic alternatives, if needed. They can be both be accessed here:

5:39 PM

Anonymous tomc said...

Hey, everything's ok, folks!

Carl just told me that ripping everything down was the only way he could reset MAYORBOB's karma.

7:14 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

If thalia and/or shane and/or whoever have some sort of scheme, I'll be happy to chip in some money. I wasn't one of those who criticized carl, but frankly, after recent events, I think it'd be an excellent idea to set up a Plastic-like venue for whatever remains of the Plastic population (and newcomers), that doesn't rely on carl.
-- sglover

9:00 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I second sglover, indeed it would be nice with a new home which doesn't rely on Carl. However, I also consider the thought of having a Plastic which relies on thefadd as its benevolent dictator to be quite terrifying. I remember at least one thread where he was more or less outed as a sociopath. To be frank, I can think of very few Plasticians less suited for the task than him.

Just my 2c, of course.

11:01 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ohio State Rules!

11:15 PM

Anonymous Last Call said...

Well isn't this familiar?

Home base destroyed (or is it? Who knows? I sure don't). No meaningful information from anyone. Supposed authority figures popping up for the occasional cryptic comment followed by hours or days of creepy silence. Watching your friends and family get swept further and further afield by the four winds until there's really no hope that home will ever be home again. Last time I went through this, they called the bitch Katrina.

Since everyone is probably in a sympathetic mood, this seems like a good occasion to share some details about how I left New Orleans, and how, eventually, I returned. Oh, sure, it's late. And I've been drinking. And who knows who's even reading this damn blog in the middle of nowhere. I damn well shouldn't be. For all I know, it's going to mute all my curse words and cut me off at 800 words (bless Plastic's “Read Full Comment” feature). But since this might be my last chance to harass everyone with a tale of woe...

On Saturday night, August 27, I went to something called the Krewe of Oak. It's sort of a late-summer half-wattage Mardi Gras that takes place on one block with one parade for one night. I happened to know the elected Queen, and I happened to know she was going to wear a chain mail bikini, and though I had also heard that there was a little Cat 1 storm brewing just past Florida, well, did I mention the chain mail bikini? I'll spare you details of the night... except to say that whatever the Queen was drinking was priceless, because it lowered her inhibitions to the point that she ditched the parade with a certain Yours Truly, and I now have a chain mail bikini in my closet which I will protect and cherish to my dying day.

God, if I had to have a last weekend in Pre-Katrina New Orleans, thanks for making it memorable. But God, in all fairness, you made me pay for it. Sunday morning I was as hung over as I've ever been without turning a year older. I didn't get out of bed until 3 p.m. At which point Katrina was a Monster Death Storm DEFCON 5, REPENT, and headed right for us. Was I watching the news? Hell no, I was in the bathroom, vomiting at the mirror. And me, as has been so often the case, without a car...

The first word I got that I was in the bullseye of the worst natural disaster in American yadda yadda yadda arrive with an unpleasantly loud knock on my door. It was my downstairs neighbor, Big Trish. Now, some of you might be silently tsk-tsk'ing me for giving a perfectly nice girl such a perfectly rude nickname. And you're right, I'm an insensitive bastard. But Trish was and remains Big with a capital B, and there's nothing my choice of nickname is going to do about it. Anyway, Trish was just checking to make sure I was safely evacuated, and (tsk, tsk) here I was not even dressed and smelling faintly of Captain and puke.

“Well, of course you should evacuate, silly,” says Trish, too loud, not that anything WASN'T too loud at that point. “It's a Category 5.”

“A five? Really?” That was the first I'd heard of it. And that was when my coward instinct, which has saved my ass more than once, started to power up the emergency generator.

“Um, Trish, when is it supposed to hit?” I asked, trying to sound nonchalant and pretty much failing. “And, uh, where exactly?”

“Here, ya big dumb goober! Right here, this apartment. Direct hit, in like, ten hours. Duh! Haven't you been listening to WWL?” I wanted to explain to her that with all the ringing in my ears, turning on a radio would be completely redundant. I also wanted her to shut up and let me think. But more importantly, I needed a ride.

“Well, Trish, this is obviously a pretty hairy situation. Maybe I should come with you. We could, you know, weather the storm together.” Tragically, whatever the Queen was drinking, Trish hadn't gotten any. Or maybe it was the puke residue.

“Well, you know I'd love to help, but I already packed up my car. There's no room for anybody else. Can't you ask one of those, you know... not criminals... but the guys who are always coming over? Your friends? Don't they have cars?”

Who knows? I thought. My friends lose their cars in poker games. Hell, someone drove my car into the Lake. But I had a more immediate concern.

“Look Trish, it's great that you're all packed up. But can you at least fit my cat? I'd feel terrible if anything happened to him.”

Sure, I could drown like the scrawny rat I am, but Trish has a soft spot for real animals a mile wide. So I packed up dear Dammit in his brave little cat carrier (he was pissed off royally at the inconvenience), and sent him off with Trish. And this is where things get really interesting. Too bad I wasn't there, but I will reconstruct future events as best I can from eyewitness accounts, my imagination, and Dammit's fragmentary but generally reliable testimony.

First off, Trish left New Orleans on I-10 headed toward Baton Rouge. And before she even left New Orleans, she was in trouble: She stopped at a Krispy Kreme to buy, I don't know, their whole fucking menu, and somehow when she was getting back in the car, she managed to knock Dammit's carrier out of the passenger seat, onto the ground, and into a million non-cat-carrier shaped pieces.

I theorize that she had so much Krispy Kreme goodness to unload that she actually tried to payload it into the car via the passenger-side door, at which point all the debris and baggage (including Dammit and carrier) that she had compressed against the door when she was occupying 36-inches of the driver's seat, came exploding outward. Anyway, if you can imagine the ire of an already fierce and easily pissed-off cat who's been abducted, stuffed in an old wooden box, and probably forced to listen to an hour of Jewel, then multiply that by “dropped on asphalt in an exploding cat-carrier” and you'll have Dammit's mental state well in hand. And remember that Dammit's hands, unlike ours, are covered in retractable hate-spikes.

To Trish's credit, she somehow corralled the little beast, but only to the point of locking him in the car, and her out of it. And was she injured? You damn well better believe it. And what did she do in this emergency? The only reasonable thing, of course: She called me. At this point, I was already on my way out of town—the other way, north on 59. I'd been calling in every favor I could manage just to evacuate my own ass, and I'd found a ride at last with a fellow slacker, Adam, who didn't know the end was nigh until it was right the fuck on top of him.

So what could I do for Trish from the Mississippi State Line? Not much, but I promised I'd try. Off the phone with hysterical Trish, I checked my cell: batteries at 50%. Recharger under my bed. And right about then, Sunday night, the phone lines started jamming. Twenty minutes of text messaging got me exactly one lead: a Tulane student I knew named Ray who was heading west on I-10 and could make a stop at Krispy Kreme. Lucky me: Ray came through. Turns out he not only was willing to take my vicious beast off Trish's hands, he also knew how to pop the locks of cheap cars (this came in handy one time a few months later; if Plastic ever returns, I'll tell you). So Trish had access to her car, the bleeding had mostly stopped, and the cat had only eaten about half of her cream-filled dough nuts (also locked in the car, I guess. I think that was the last straw as far as Trish was concerned: my cat was officially evil).

Ray took one look at my cat and knew that taking him along unrestrained would be suicidal. They needed a new cat carrier. But where to get one? It was Trish, I'm told, who mustered the MacGyver instincts necessary to salvage the situation: looting. They simply walked from the Kreme to a nearby house and stole it's classically hip, sheet-metal, flag-up/down mailbox. Pretty small, admittedly, but claw proof. Ray jammed some screwdriver-air-holes into it with little difficulty, jammed the cat into it with great difficulty, and tied the front end together with one of Trish's coat hangers. Presto: a cat straitjacket.

So off Trish went, bloodied but wiser and with half a compliment of cream dough nuts for her trouble. Ray seat-belted my mailbox-shaped cat into the cab of his '95 Ram and drove to Franklinton LA via I-12 North. Which, in case you don't know, was still in the path of the storm. I don't know why I keep assuming Tulane students are smart just because they can break into cars and hijack mailboxes. Ray assumed he'd be safe in Franklinton because he'd be miles from the coast. He didn't count on how powerful Katrina was.

Five hours later, in the dead of night, I got a call on my cell (the last call I ever got on that handset, actually). I was in Montgomery or so, still heading north, and my battery was toast. It was Ray; he and the cat were evacuating again, this time headed west. The storm was due to hit the coast in a few hours, and Franklinton just wasn't considered safe; it was only 20 miles from the eye track.

“The good news,” he told me just before the signal cut out, “is that I built a new cat carrier out of a big-assed birdhouse my dad has here at our house in Franklinton, so Dammit won't have to spend the night in the mailbox.”

“Mailbox? Ray, what the hell are you talking about? And where are you evacuating to?” Nothing but static answered. That was the last I heard of Dammit for almost two months.

Damn, it's getting late, and I'm rambling, as usual. I'll have to finish this tale tomorrow night. Be strong, Refugee Plastards, until next time.

11:40 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

11:01 pm:

quote: To be frank, I can think of very few Plasticians less suited for the task than him. endquote.

I agree. We should never let thefadd, Acefantastik, or GreenPolicy represent the wonderful idea that is Plastic. For they were such jerks, they rendered me unable to use the block function, and simultaneously forced me to keep mentioning their names! Curse them! Curse Maurice Clarett! Curse the burning cow shit stench of Columbus, Ohio!

4:11 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am having massive plastic withdrawal.

Hell I am having chat withdrawal and a few weeks ago, I didn't give a shit about chat. All your fault. Get back, Jojo. I miss you.

6:15 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think it's time to do a little less grousing about who ends up being the benevolent dictator at the next plastic and a bit more volunteering whatever you can to getting it back up off the ground. I'm directing these remarks at the sniping directed towards thefadd.

The point is that he took direct action to see to it that a replacement chat facility was put up to allow those of us who care to keep in touch. A little less rancor directed towards any particular Plastician and perhaps joining up on shane's mailing list or at least trying the plastiverse chat to keep up to date on things would be a therapeutic thing.

There is no Plastician other than carl who is responsible for the collapse of the site and chat. I know I didn't have anything to do with that and I don't know of anyone else who did either. So, why not try to pull together to get through this thing instead of continuing the pointless bickering?


6:37 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I,for one, have no intention of wallowing in and whining about how "Oh, I miss plastic, the plastic wit, the plastic conversation, the plastic people" regardless of how educated or intelligent or deviant or entertaining.

It's ALL plastic. Find some measure of fulfillment elsewhere.

As far as resurrecting plastic, that is the ultimate insult.

Let plastic die with dignity.

9:23 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

And for those who DO miss plastic and the people ...

9:57 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

> instead of continuing the pointless bickering?

Mayor, with all due respect, it must be possible to raise a reasonable objection without being referred to as "bickering". Some people might want thefadd to host and rule Plastic 2.0. Other people might not. Both must be allowed to say how they feel without you insulting them.

FWIW, I agree with the poster who said that a Plastic run by GP or thefadd is probably worse than no Plastic at all. Sure, I might consider helping you pull towards some new Plastic. But that doesn't really contradict not wanting thefadd in charge, now does it?

10:08 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear 9:23am anonymous,

If plastic is dead to you and you really don't have any desire to move on or cooperate and intend to find your enjoyment elsewise, good luck to you and I hope you find what you're looking for. Allow the rest of us who still find a modicum of solace in working to try to replace what we lost the right to do what we wish to do. And if the day comes when we manage to get it going on, know that you'd be welcome to return and participate.


10:10 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear 10:08 anonymous,

I call it pointless bickering because that's what it sounds like to me. If you're not aware, there is an effort underway which isn't driven by any particular Plastician. I'm referring to the offer made by shane. While it's true that thefadd and myself and a number of others have signed up for the mailing list, it is not led by me or thefadd or any other person. The point is that a direction is open to us and what we need are Plasticians willing to do whatever they can to contribute to getting a new site back up.

It is way too soon to determine how the site will be managed and by whom. If you are serious about wanting to make sure that the new plastic has a shot at being as vibrant and vital as the old one was, then I suggest you join the mailing list and respond to the effort with what you can offer to contribute.

To dwell on the old animosities and resurrect old feuds isn't going to help the effort any, IMHO. I'm sure there will be issues and concerns we will end up disagreeing about. But I would like to see the launch of the effort be as grudge-free as possible.



10:19 AM

Anonymous ms_sue said...

I have an idea: Why don't we pile on thefadd and anyone else who's gotten off his butt and actually, you know, done something to keep our options for a new site, if necessary, open? Maybe if we try hard enough, we can discourage him and, like the hypocritically captious 9:23 a.m. AI poster who doesn't want to "wallow" :-), just sit back and let Plastic die a dignified death?

Or we can be reasonable adults about this and work together to get something going for those who would like to participate in a discussion/chat site.

Given the nature of the current and past Plastic community, nobody will want or be able to dictate anything, benevolent or malevolent. But if we are adrift permanently, someone(s) will, by necessity, have to step up and organize a new site.

The choices are to help get things started and then to participate (or lurk, as the case may be) so that the site is as democratic as possible, to set up something on your own if you're not happy with the current situation or plan, or to go away.

10:45 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your legacy on plastic is inescapable, sue.

Did ms_sue, the ultimate captious scholar just hurl that adjective at a random idiot?

How "hypocritically captious" of you ms_sue.

cap·tious adj. (kpshs)

Marked by a disposition to find and point out trivial faults.

Intended to entrap or confuse, as in an argument.

11:05 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was feeling good about about starting afresh with a new plastic-like community. Plastic was a kinder, gentler slashdot, and it was nice to read and share opinions on a variety of subjects in a slightly less cutthroat environment.

Now that mayorbob and ms_sue have reared their ugly heads, I am disheartened. Who wants to move to a new neighborhood, with the same loser neighbors who pester you everytime you go out to change your oil, telling you how you're doing it wrong? The same blowhards dominating every conversation. The same forum nazis that grow all over the internet.

I think it's finally time to make real friends in real life. At least they have to look me in the eye while they are wrecking a good time...

11:07 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

11:08 AM

Anonymous suckerpunch said...

As I mentioned elsewhere, isn't Carl's job per se and it's an act of love. Last breif discussion I had with Carl he certainly didn't sound like was dead and I doubt he was being -1 disingenuous.

Everyone just relax for a bit, maybe even go outside, talk to real people... in person and stuff. Check back to in a little bit and the world will return to "normal," whatever the hell that is.

12:13 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous at 11:07 -- Unless I missed something, both the mayor and sue were a part of that "kinder, gentler slashdot" of which you speak. Odd, isn't it that both of them seem to have weighed in with words of inclusion rather than exclusion. Yet you seem to feel threatened by having them show up to the party. Yeah, it probably would be best for you to avoid plastic (or places like it) in the future. We wouldn't want your feelings to get all hurt.

12:55 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

ms_sue and mayorbob weighing in with words of inclusion? Yep, that is what they are famous for.

ms_sue, you will always be a hag who enjoys double/triple posting to proove your point. And so will your friends (wait, they are all you.)

PS That extra "e" in prove was to piss you off. We know you get off on that.

1:02 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

1:28 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous 12:55:

"Don't let the door hit me in the ass," right? Well, fuck you. ms_sue and mayorbob are what made plastic bad, what made it a sick community. It WAS a kinder gentler slashdot, before you two appeared. Then it became your personal playground. You two prove that one can be more harmful be over participating than by under participating.

Fuck you.

2:13 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous 2:13 PM:

"Fuck you." And plastic (or whatever becomes of it) will be that much poorer for want of your eloquence. It really bothers you that there are people better in life than you, aren't you? You need anger management or that twisted, sick feeling in the pit of your gut eats you up.

2:18 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why not just use software format for a placeholder site until something better or permanent can be set up?

At least this way we can discuss current events. Better than nothing.

- GreenPolicy

2:49 PM

Anonymous ms_sue said...

To AI (2:13 p.m.)-- if you are the original AI who directly stated that he or she will not mourn over the death of Plastic, that it should not be resurrected, and that it should die with dignity, then yes, I guess I'd have to say that my message would be that you should follow your heart.

For those of us interested in a new site, if it comes to that, I do think that one important issue should be whether we will continue the Plastic's tradition of allowing anonymous posting.

I've always defended that custom, but after reading this thread that was supposed to be a discussion of how we should proceed from here, I'm beginning to see the possible wisdom of allowing only those who have registered to post comments.

If nothing else, we could try it without the AI function to see if it made a difference; we could always add it later if there was enough interest to do so.

I think that it's definitely something to consider and will bring it up via the mailing list.


3:24 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

4:44 PM

Anonymous phoney_ms_sue said...

Cram it, ms_sue. As far as I'm concerned, you and mayormazdasecret are solely responsible for the figurative demise of plastic that preceeded (perhaps precipitated?) the actual demise of plastic.

Of course you are in favor of eliminating the AI, tyrants always eventually suppress dissent.

6:27 PM

Anonymous phoney_ms_sue said...

"Fuck you." And plastic (or whatever becomes of it) will be that much poorer for want of your eloquence. It really bothers you that there are people better in life than you, aren't you? You need anger management or that twisted, sick feeling in the pit of your gut eats you up.

See, that's where you are mistaken. I enjoy this.

6:29 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...


Eat shit and die. As I posted upthread, there is only one person responsible for the collapse of plastic -- that would be carl. You don't like me or ms_sue -- gotcha and I can't begin to tell you how much that really, really upsets me.

I don't know, you know you figure we don't have plastic and some people would let up on the hating and get with the helping or just clear out quietly if they don't feel like helping. I have a pretty good idea of who you are behind your pussy-assed whining about how sue and I singlehandedly destroyed your precious plastic. Let me ask you. Just what did you ever do constructively on plastic? Yeah, I didn't think so.

Love and kisses,


6:35 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is all getting embarrassingly ugly. For the sake of anyone who misses plastic (and carl) please stop it.

As far as this ugliness, no one asked, but here is what I do: I don't feel compelled to respond to mean people. It rarely matters.

Others may wage a war of words here, and will continue to do so. Even though I just said "please stop," I guess that doesn't matter to me either -- this is not a place where I hang out.

I've said it before -- I like plastic, I like carl. I try to stay away from this stuff.

As far as those people here who do matter to me, I hope our paths cross again.


7:18 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Go to newsvine.

7:21 PM

Anonymous phoney_ms_sue said...

Eat shit and die.
I have a pretty good idea of who you are behind your pussy-assed whining about how sue and I singlehandedly destroyed your precious plastic. Let me ask you. Just what did you ever do constructively on plastic? Yeah, I didn't think so.

Love and kisses,


mayorsecretmazda, if that is you, you once again show your true colors. A little criticism and you resort to name calling and bullying.

What did I do to help plastic? I joined on day ONE and submitted stories and made comments and contributed money when carl asked for it. And I got pushed away when "you" and ms_sue took over. So yes, I don't like you. Not for the reasons you seem to think, though. Only because you ruined plastic by example.

10:42 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the anonymous doofus (thefadd, I guess) posting "" every five minutes: we get it already. If people wanted to go there, they would have already. If anything, you're discouraging them from doing so by being so fucking annoying.

12:03 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Phoney_ms_sue and MAYORBOB:

Stop it, please. For the love of God. Plastic is belly up and all you two cocksores can think of to do is fling insults back and forth.

We have no way of knowing who the phoney one is, so your contention that you're a member from DAY ONE are just text on a computer monitor. I gotta tell you that if you allowed one or two users to totally destroy your plastic experience, you probably weren't having all that good a time to begin with. If the acid test for Plastic worthiness is membership from DAY ONE and occasional contributions in the way of write ups and money, then I'd say it's a pretty small universe for candidates in the Plastic Hall of Fame. In a way, you're saying "fuck you" not only to the mayor and Sue but to every other Plastic member who didn't sign up on DAY ONE and who didn't think that was the end all, be all.

Mr. Mayor, your contributions to the site over the long haul are the stuff of legend. Nobody in their right mind holds you and Sue responsible for Plastic being out. Why you insist in caving in to the need to snap out at some nameless, faceless person is beyond me. You need to grow an extra layer or two of skin and simply ignore the ignorable.

6:57 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

As a tribute the legendary MAYORBOB and ms_sue_collins, I am going to buy the domain and host the portraits of them currently located at:

7:23 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm not Colin:

8:22 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

To MAYORBOB, ms_sue, and their stalkers,

Please stay away from the new plastic. Everytime one of you posts it reveals your basic pathology. You would only drag the new site down.

The Peanut Gallery

9:24 AM

Anonymous fake_phoney_ms_sue said...

To MAYORBOB, ms_sue, and their stalkers,

Please stay away from the new plastic. Everytime one of you posts it reveals your basic pathology. You would only drag the new site down.

The Peanut Gallery

To be fair, we were all having fun until these two Rascalled themselves here. I think it's fair to say that ms_sue and mayorsecretmazda are stalking me.

10:41 AM

Anonymous phoney_ms_sue said...

If the acid test for Plastic worthiness is membership from DAY ONE and occasional contributions in the way of write ups and money, then I'd say it's a pretty small universe for candidates in the Plastic Hall of Fame.

mazda626 asked what I'd done for plastic, and I told him. I'm not saying that makes me more or less worthy than anyone else. He wanted my plastic CV, and I gave it to him.

As far as I'm converned, ms_sue and mazdabob are the most successful trolls plastic ever had.

10:44 AM

Anonymous profpeach said...

I was happy to see that some plasticians were serious about a new version going.

But this last interchange, it makes me think that it's better to let plastic go and create something new, including a new culture.

So,I'm willing to help out on what shane is planning. Not coding, but whatever else I can do.

1:24 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

There's definitely a pathology going on with the MAYORBOB and ms_sue stalking. There were things said in chat that gave a clue as to who is responsible...unfortunately, that person is pretending to be helpful with plastiverse as well.

1:37 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The curse of Plastic strikes: newsvine seems to be down.

1:39 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Last call's post is the only thing worth reading here. Could all of you meta-meta stalker posters please rephrase your posts in terms of a missing cat named Dammit and an unreliable Tulane graduate? It would elevate the level of the discussion tremendously.

Many thanks.

3:51 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Carl should really get in touch with someone from plastic and inform us as to what the hell is going on. It would be such a small gesture to those of us who made his site worth something.

3:54 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

another backup -


4:19 PM

Anonymous suckerpunch said...

Fucking christ, this blog comment thread proves what some of us with some sense believed all along, there's no need for AIs, they bring nothing to the table but childish asshattery.

4:23 PM

Anonymous tomc said...

I propose that Job #1 be getting up an alternate site. Since carl ain't sayin' nuthin', let's work with the folks who understand what we can build, and BUILD IT.

If carl's plastic comes back, GREAT! Then we can individually decide which site we like better.

It's win/win, folks.

4:44 PM

Anonymous snwodttam said...

Ack! It's been gone so long. I don't know what to do. :) My internet surfing habits have always revolved around Plastic. I wasn't that prolific of a poster, but I really enjoyed the community. Hopefully we can find/make a decent alternative when/if Plastic is officially gone. If Plastic comes back, then all the better.

See you folks around.

6:15 PM

Anonymous AdipicAcid said...

I'd agree that at this point if we want any continuity with the Plastic community, we need to start building something ourselves. I was sympathetic at first, but the black hole of information that surrounds Platic right now is rather frustrating.

And seeing the quality of the anonymous comments makes me glad that I started blocking the AI almost as soon as the feature became available. I agree that the AI brings nothing to the party other than unaccountable insults

7:50 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes, we all should be so accountable with names like "secretmayordriver" or "adipic acid" or "snarkism". Etc. We're all anonymous. You just want to be able to track your enemies.


8:22 PM

Anonymous tomc said...

Y'know, folks can debate the merits of AI, ms_sue or MB being part of plastic until the cows come home. The fact is that, as evidenced by posts here, they're all still part of plastic, unless carl or someone else comes up with a way to vote people off the island...(...and even then, by gar...)...

You love plastic, you hate plastic, you love/hate plastic: it doesn't matter. We're all passionate plasticians, we need to take practical steps to keep this community alive.

9:10 PM

Anonymous Port1080 said...

For those that are interested in working on getting an alternative site going, here are links:


Plastiverse Wiki (quite a bit of info has been archived here - if you have anything to add, please do)

plastiverse java chat

Shane's test server for the new site

Shane's mailing list

9:52 PM

Anonymous Josh of Arc said...

Well folks, assuming plastic is dead (insert deep sigh here) I've been checking out newsvine, which seems pretty good. Building on thefadd's plastiverse wiki, I added the following article as a means for reestablishing contact with anyone else who chooses to migrate to newsvine as a replacement (but hopefully just addition) to plastic content:
Plasticverse wiki commnity portal

I hope to see you all there,
- J

10:06 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I hope you jack asses haven't chased Last Call away with your asshattery. I was really enjoying his story. Brought back some good memories...

10:51 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is the real MAYORBOB and this thread has convinced me that Plastic (or its replacement) would be a better place without me in it. I'm getting too old to put up with the asinine, sophomoric trolling. Now due to my participation on the mailing list, I've been getting a number of lovely messages to my in box. Either the email addies on the mailing list have been made public record or someone on the list opted to share mine with one sick, twisted fuck.

To the sick fuck who promises to hunt down me and my family to "fucking murder and rape the lot of us", your messages have been forwarded to the appropriate authorities. I hope you enjoy those once a week showers and monthly visits to the exercise yard.

I'm too old to put up with this shit any longer and I just want to be left alone. Thus, I'm out of here and will no longer darken your lives. I wish those of you working on the new place well.

4:44 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Man, people SUCK.

5:16 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you're not aware, there is an effort underway which isn't driven by any particular Plastician. I'm referring to the offer made by shane. While it's true that thefadd and myself and a number of others have signed up for the mailing list, it is not led by me or thefadd or any other person. The point is that a direction is open to us and what we need are Plasticians willing to do whatever they can to contribute to getting a new site back up.

I used to like the Mayor, back in my plastic days. I thought it was kind of a fair arbiter.

I saw that change as his thirst for koolaid grew stronger and he gained official station to match his high karma. (Which was not as high as mine at one point, but I digress.)

Plastic is -- was -- a lot of things. One of those was a website. One of those was a "community". The type of community it was becoming, even by, say, early '02, is evidenced by the worst sniping of this thread. Really, it fealt like old hippies down at the communal farm arguing about the moral purity of pesticides.

And that's really what plastic came to look like, to me: Carl's communal farm. Carl paid $40K to buy a few thousand "pals" so he could play enigma without having to actually deal with people personally. He bought in, he didn't create. Let's not forget who actually did create: Joey, the "con man" (disclaimer: neither my term nor my opinion). Did carl conceive? Sure. So did a lot of other people, in different time and places. But Automatic Media *did*. And Carl *bought*.

Plastic is -- was -- many things. It will probably be many things again. When, and what those are, and what children (foul or fair) they beget through their incestuous misceginations, only time will tell. One thing is for sure: Any predictions or intentioned efforts will not lead where they point. For evidence, look to the history of Plastic...

5:25 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

tomc said: unless carl or someone else comes up with a way to vote people off the island...(...and even then, by gar...)...

Notwithstanding MB's flameout, I would respectfully point out that carl (or whoever) would have any number of highly effective and very net.oldschool ways of "voting off" MB, ms_sue, or yourself. Starting with deleting you from the database.

5:29 AM

Anonymous AdipicAcid said...

Well, you see it works like this. When I know that the user "shitgasm" is a troll, I can block him and read the rest of the site pretty much unimpeded. When everyone is allowed to post anonymously my only solution is ignore all AI posts entirely. I used to think that was enough, but looking at the pure joy some people seem to derive from posting malicious filth, I'd say force them back over to Fucked Company where they belong.

Kind of like a dog who won't stay housebroken, you get to live in the yard.

5:33 AM

Anonymous phoney_mazdamayormember said...

Tracking your enemies. Gotcha.

Real mayorbob, if that's really you, I'm sorry you've suffered the insanity of a lunatic. Nobody deserves that.

That said, we've heard that old song and dance before. Wherever the cabal next meets, I'm sure there will be a "innocentbystander" or somesuch, voluminously producing and shamelessly denying comparisons to mayorbob. Then, later, we'll see you reappear, trumped up perceived slight resolved.

6:10 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear phoney_mazdamayormember,

I assure you that there will be no user generated by me in any future evolution of plastic. I could endure the sniping and stalking when it was done on the plastic discussion board, but when it reached out and into my email inbox that was when I decided to call it quits.

I don't know if you're not the same sick puppy responsible for the threats and love notes, but let me state I have no intention of tracking down whomever sent those things -- that's what the authorities are for. If you're not the same person who sent the love notes, then enjoy the future blessedly freed from my presence. If you are, then please do feel a bit paranoid and apprehensive because the officers I spoke to insisted they took this sort of thing dead serious.


6:44 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can totally picture Carl, after having taken down plastic and creating this little waiting for plastic blogger site, sitting here laughing his ass off at all the whiny bobbleheads droning on about the demise of plastic. "That'll teach 'em to flamewar my name and all my hard work!"

8:43 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!

8:51 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

to the 8:43 Idiot:

carl did not put this blog up. Go worship him somewhere else.

9:19 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the 9:19 AM idiot:

How do you know I'm not Carl, Idiot?

9:33 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

How do you know I'm not Carl, Idiot?

Surreal. That would be cool. But you sound too lucid.

10:03 AM

Anonymous maml said...


Thanks Last Call. That was a good read.

And to everyone one who dedicates their time to hating on the Mayor and Ms_Sue, take a good look at yourself. If everything you say about them is true, have you really accomplished anything by spending this much time and effort harshing on them?

My analysis is that you've wasted a huge amount of time you could have spent persuing something positive, like surfing porn or earning more money for Yu-Gi-Oh cards or whatever it is that makes you happy. Vindictive trolling is just going to give you and ulcer.

10:08 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

It sucks watching anyone get beaten up -- even the bullies.

I enjoyed it when it was more clear who bothered me more -- the trolls with names, or the trolls without.

11:52 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

"You will never make yourself look better by trying to make someone else look bad."

Best piece of advice my father ever gave me.

Yes, if you think I meant you, I did.

12:15 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

plastic had been taken over by intel to track vocal (if harmless) dissent and harvest IP addresses as early as 2002

why else would there be so many military on it?

now that the nsa/fbi spying is out in the open, there is really no need for plastic anymore.

12:38 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

This thread is a heckuva trainwreck. That's about all I care to say about it.

1:26 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

So is plastic without carl. At least it was a fun trainwreck before.

This stuff just sucks.

2:17 PM

Anonymous phoney_ms_sue said...


I promise it's not me. It's some other nut.


3:04 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...


3:40 PM

Anonymous Jimmy Havok said...

If the MAYORBOB stalker gets nailed to the wall, that will be one nice thing that comes out of this outage.

I hope he's really as stupid as he seems, and left enough clues in his emails to let the authorities get him.

4:48 PM

Blogger permazorch said...

retractable hate-spikes

If plastic really is gone for good, I'll miss it, and everyone on it except for the mayorbob + ms. sue stalkers.

My real (plastic) name is plasticpussy. I created the entity in a fit of monkey-throwing-turds rage. I've never really liked it beyond its punk feel. It meant I could say things I'd regret later, yet would fit the persona. I never created another account, because I had so much invested in it, already. If comes back, I'll go back to plasticpussy. If we get something else together, I'll go by permazorch.

To: thefadd & {koos}
I swear your cds have been done for weeks, and I will send them!

Fuck, I'm a lameass. God(s) Dammit! I love lastcall!

I LOVE YOU, lastcall!

I miss all y'all!

5:11 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

There are many more SLOB and sue haters than you can imagine. I count four here.

6:11 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Congratulations to the plastiverse crew. They went and loaded some motherless piece of shit that won't allow those of us using java chat to log onto discussion. After all the bullshit thefadd et al used to spread about over how "the cabal" meets in private discussing everything behind everyone's backs, they go ahead and their very first decision is to set things up so only the select, approved few can access chat about the future of Plastic. Way to go guys.

7:55 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just tried to log onto plastiverse chat like the anonymous before me. I have an MIRC client and I'm unable to connect to plastiverse chat. I think the crew in charge ought to think about reinstalling their original chat facility or there'll be nothing but pissings and moanings ahead.

8:06 PM

Anonymous Port1080 said...

Chat should be working -

I am currently able to log on both via Xchat and via the java chat webpage. There's certainly no cabal - it's just a matter of working the bugs out.

If it doesn't work let me know at port1080 (at) gmail (dot) com and tell me what the problem is so I can fix it. There will probably be some bugs, but with your help we can quickly work through them.

We opted for our own private server because the previous java chat was hosted on a public network, and we kept getting random people dropping by and trolling the channel. With our own server is should be a little bit more focused on the task at hand.

8:15 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...


I have no doubt there is no cabal at work here but the other thing not working here is that chat facility on your private server. All I get is a nice big red X and a message telling me the java applet failed. I'm just saying if the chat facility isn't open and working by tomorrow, you can expect to get nothing but a bunch of grief from the naysayers.

Just a thought, why are you so obsessed with discouraging random chatters? I thought Plastic was supposed to be about openness and community.

8:19 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...


Settle down. I doubt it is on purpose. They'll fix it.

I'm glad they are at least trying to find ways for those of us that want to reconnect to do so.

8:23 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...


You settle down. I merely pointed out a shortcoming in the system and for that I get told to shut up? With that sort of openminded attitude the new plastic is off to a bad start before it even begins.

8:30 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dude #2,

I was actually responding to the first comment about not being able to log on(which was probably you too) before I knew Port posted something that told us to email him.

I can't log in either. I don't think I told you to shut up did I? I miss chat too. Maybe we can talk later.

8:34 PM

Anonymous Port1080 said...

Okay, it looks like the java client I chose has issues with Internet Explorer. It should work okay with FireFox and Opera, however (at least, it does for me). My apologies for not catching that more quickly. We'll have a fix or a replacement up as quickly as possible (probably by tomorrow night at the latest). There is no deliberate attempt to exclude IE users (or anyone, for that matter).

I'm hardly obsessed with discouraging random chatters, but in the few days we were using liveharmony there were people who spammed the channel with advertisements, some middle schoolers that didn't have a clue, and a variety of random people who dropped in asking the infamous "a/s/l" (i.e. age/sex/location) in an attempt to chat us up. Plastic may have been a lot of things, but I don't remember it ever resembling that.

I realise that there are a lot of frayed nerves right now and I don't want to step on anyone's toes - this is purely an effort to try to bring the community back together a bit so we can decide how best to move forward.

8:40 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...


I'm running Firefox and it's a bolo. I'll try loading Opera, but this is getting ridiculous.

8:46 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...


Loaded Opera successfully. Failed to invoke plastiverse chat. All I got was a blank page. I'm tired and this is just giving me a big headache. Hope you sort things out so we can have chat tomorrow.

8:53 PM

Anonymous Port1080 said...

Those that are having problems, please at least post (and if possible, e-mail to avoid cluttering up the channel) the error code that you're getting. We'll probably put up a different java chat client tomorrow - unfortunately, I don't have access to everything that I need to fix it and thefadd is out for the rest of the night. Is there anyone who is still having problems connecting with a regular chat client (i.e. mIRC or Xchat) or is this purely an issue with the java client?

8:57 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...


I installed a MIRC client and using FireFox or IE all I got was a big red X where the chat dialogue screen should be (same as I got before I installed MIRC). Using Opera, I get just a blank screen. What I don't know about browsers and MIRC clients would fill encyclopedias. That's about as much information as I have to share.

9:26 PM

Anonymous Port1080 said...

If you have mIRC installed you don't need to use the web browser - you can sign on using mIRC itself. The help files for mIRC are pretty good - the main thing to know is that you need to put in when the program asks for a server and join the channel #plastic once you're connected to the server.

9:34 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

When you come down to it, there's really no advantage gained in telling them anything. Because even if you did, they wouldn't listen anyway. Have fun fucking up your own lives.

Alas Plastic, if you would have believed in yourself I was only too ready to believe in you. Even at this point, it's still not too late. Every day, I wait for someone, anyone to care enough to reach out. I am doomed to disappointment.

4:09 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Carl is not done with plastic. He just doesn't want to be asked how he is doing or what we can do for him.

Let him work out his issues. I like that he is a little different. And I'd rather know that he is doing ok (seems to be) than when plastic is coming back. I would not give up on him yet.

Yes I think I'm okay
I walked into the door again
Well, if you ask that's what I'll say
And it's not your business anyway
I guess I'd like to be alone
With nothing broken, nothing thrown
Just don't ask me how I am
Just don't ask me how I am

4:22 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Who let the dogs out? Crapola, no sooner does someone post some of carl's tripe from Freedonia than along comes a carl idolator to weigh in on how we should all lighten up on Plastic's precious snowflake.

Face it people, carl betrayed us. Each and every one of us.

4:40 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Carl didn't betray you, you selfish bastard.

Get over yourself.

5:50 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Everytime carl needed a money fix, he got it. Unfortunately, he had a tendency to wait for the hounds to gather at the door before he actually got around to telling people what he needed. As evidenced by the effort being put forth by thefadd, shane, and the rest, carl could have gotten some relief from the burdens of running the site. Plastic was a treasure. It was the jewel in the crown of the internet as far as a lot of us were concerned.

Okay, so carl gets bored, burned out, or broke once again. It's not like, had he done the adult thing and informed people that he was calling it quits but he would gladly sell the site to anyone interested in paying his price, that he might have, no make that, probably would have gotten an offer or two. That would have been win-win. We'd still have Plastic and carl would have a nestegg to go out and do whatever it might be that would interest him.

But carl didn't do the adult thing. He did the carl thing -- he tore down the whole thing without a whisper about what was really happening. So, yes, carl did betray us. Time to get up off your knees; the worshiping of carl has come to an end.

6:37 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

All this speculation about Carl is entertaining.

Carl is wonderful. Carl bertrayed me. Both statments are equally silly.

Here's the thing: carl probably doesn't waste enough time thinking about you to betray you. And he probably doesn't care if you think he is wonderful. But how would I know?

If this is what it has gotten to, we must be really bored. Myself included -- look what I am responding to.

7:23 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...


More info on the plastiverse chat problem. This is the error message I get when I try to connect (I only have IE):

"A security error occurred while connecting to host 'null:6667'.

This could have happened for a number of reasons:

1). The administrator of this web site did not configure this applet properly.

2). Your java security settings are above the normal level.

3). You are the administrator, and are trying to connect to a server which it is not allowed to. Did you *sign* the applet?

This error is most easily solved by reading the documentation, and understanding the configuration file."

Number 3 doesn't apply. I'm a bit reticent to muck around as per number 2. Could number 1 be the answer?

7:33 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Update on chat - it works if you connect via a normal IRC client (as far as I know, no one using a normal IRC client has had any problems). The Java client may or may not work - as far as I can tell, it seems to depend on what version of java you have installed and possibly some other variables. I'm going to work on finding a better java client and hopefully we'll have it up tonight.

8:04 AM

Anonymous Port1080 said...

the anonymous post @ 8:04am was indeed me.

8:04 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...


Wishing you well on getting that better java client up. A lot of us can't set up an IRC client (workplace rules and such).

8:35 AM

Anonymous port1080 said...

Here is a temporary alternative java client for those that cannot use the java client currently on the site:

Test it out and let me know what you think. Right now I'm using the unregistered "shareware" version - if we want to use it for more than a month it costs $50, but it might be worth it if enough of you like it.

10:04 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...


I got "unable to connect to server" message.

10:11 AM

Anonymous Port1080 said...

10:11 AM anonymous - did you have access with the old java chat client as well? It's working for other people, if there is a problem I need to get a handle on what it is.

10:15 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

AI 7:33, I think the problem is something not covered by any of those options: "null" is not a host. If that's what the applet is trying to connect to, the applet is bunk.

10:54 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...


This is anonymous 10:11AM. No the old java client didn't work for me either.

11:07 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's working for me.

11:28 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Port, this is what my Java Console is showing:

java.lang.UnsupportedClassVersionError: DarkerIRC (Unsupported major.minor version 49.0)

at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass0(Native Method)

at java.lang.ClassLoader.defineClass(Unknown Source)

at Source)

at Source)

at$100(Unknown Source)

at$ Source)

at Method)

at Source)

at sun.applet.AppletClassLoader.findClass(Unknown Source)

at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)

at sun.applet.AppletClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)

at java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(Unknown Source)

at sun.applet.AppletClassLoader.loadCode(Unknown Source)

at sun.applet.AppletPanel.createApplet(Unknown Source)

at sun.plugin.AppletViewer.createApplet(Unknown Source)

at sun.applet.AppletPanel.runLoader(Unknown Source)

at Source)

at Source)

11:31 AM

Anonymous Port1080 said...

I think we're going to scratch the java client that is currently at and go with something different. It seems to work with some system configurations, but not with others. I've found an alternative solution, which is what is running at:

Please test that client and if it works for you, join the channel and say so. If it doesn't work, e-mail me at port1080 (at) gmail (dot) com or post it here. Using that java client would probably be the easiest solution at this point, but if need be there are other options (however they are more difficult to code and configure and may take a while to get working).

12:51 PM

Blogger essentialsaltes said...

For your consideration and derision:


The Flexile subq

1:21 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

There's certainly no cabal

Of course there's a cabal. There's always a cabal. I mean, what's a cabal but an in-crowd, cool kids, the lunchroom gang, the smokers, the nerds, the jocks....Not so glamorous as the Bilderbergers or the Trilats, but hey, you know what they say: The smaller the stakes, the more vicious the fight.

There's always a cabal. Even (especially) when people assure you so vehemently that there's not.

It's not evil. It's mundane.

2:17 PM

Blogger permazorch said...

It's not evil. It's mundane.
There's always a cabal.

The term is: Them

3:55 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Port1080 --
Thanks for your effort! I can connect, but the applet doesn't seem to recognize my keyboard. I'm running Firefox on a Linux box, with Java 1.5 (the applet expects 1.4, I guess?)
-- sglover

7:04 PM

Anonymous port1080 said...

sglover - I'm not sure, I have the most recent version of java running and it works okay for me. Perhaps it's because you're on linux? I think I'm going to have to play with CGI:IRC (it's what carl used for Plastic chat) and see if I can get it working. That will solve most of the java issues people seem to be having, but it'll probably be a few days before I can get it around - it's a bit more complicated that the java solutions.

7:29 PM

Anonymous Adman12 said...

I've finally given in to curiosity and ended up here. Nice to see some of the old names again. After years of lurking, I was just getting going on Plastic since last fall, gaining karma and making a contribution. I hope it comes back, but I'm getting tired of checking every day.

If anyone wants to stay in touch, I have a gmail account under my user name. See you around.

7:48 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...


Great job on the connection from here.

8:07 PM

Blogger eminem enterprises said...

Wow, great to hear from Last Call. I was genuinely worried by the silence after Katrina. Please continue.

I suspect Carl will fix this eventually, but I'll make a few suggestions to get them off my chest. Any new incarnation of Plastic cannot allow anonymous posting. These sorts of pissing matches are pretty off-putting for a lot of us. Also, a modest annual membership fee would not be inappropriate. If that results in a windfall to the hoster, so be it. And finally, if someone wants to have extra e-personae, fine by me. Just be entertaining or informative.

Good luck with an alternative. My own experience in trying to create (or reinvent) new things as part of a web-collective has not been positive. I personally believe in the benevolent dictator approach to site hosting/management.

8:08 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said:
Who wants to move to a new neighborhood, with the same loser neighbors who pester you everytime you go out to change your oil, telling you how you're doing it wrong? The same blowhards dominating every conversation.

I'm afraid I have to second that emotion. I'll admit that way back in 2001 (or 2002?), I systematically downmodded a certain poster who shall remain nameless but whose handle rhymes with "SLAYEROB." It wasn't out of animosity. I just got tired of him weighing in at the beginning of every damn thread.

(And also I was trying to win the karma competition that was taking place at the time.)

Not to pile on the mayor--er, slayer. It was the control freaks who killed Plastic. You'd submit a writeup, but it would never be good enough until you added a link that some subQ nerd wanted, rewrote this, tweaked that. Who has the time or the interest? I think a lot of people just stopped submitting writeups. Eventually the content of the site dried up to a trickle from the same usual control-freak suspects. There was hardly any content at the site, but by God, at least the writeups were long enough and had the requisite 23-36 links that you don't have time to visit!

You could tell the editors were desperate. They started posting all these lame "What is some music that Plasticians are listening to right now?" type writeups. Stuff that would get you flamed as a n00b at any self-respecting forum like Slashdot or Fark. I know, I know. At this point someone will chime in to say "But I *like* to know what music other Plasticians are listening to." All I can say is that it's interesting the first time you do it. After the 100th time, the results always wind up looking the same. Go play on Myspace, kiddies.

So I haven't been very active on Plastic lately. I checked in once in a while to see if the front page had changed since last week. Only in the last couple of days did I realize it was really, seriously down, and decided to see what I could find out about it from Google.

So here we are, and the owner of this blog is bitching because someone posted a non-quicklink comment in a thread that he meant to be exclusively for quicklinks. Some subQ nerd chimes in that perhaps we could have a QL blog, and then another subQ nerd flames him for even suggesting such a stupid thing. Pretty much sums up what Plastic has come to be in the past couple of years.


9:39 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

+1 astute, superdude

9:53 PM

Anonymous tomc said...

For your consideration and derision:


I'd give it a try, only it's asking for a credit card number to verify I'm over 13 years of age, and I'm not happy about that.

10:06 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...


It only asks for a credit cardif you are signing up for an account level beyond "basic".

T. Slothrop

10:27 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

That was so clever, superdude.

For proper effect, you must read the above in an extremely flat, affectless voice. Janeanne Garofolo is a good model.

2:41 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The term is: Them


(But: Who are them -- er, they? One theory: They are the ones who stock the grocery store shelves!. ...makes ya think, huh?)

5:22 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

My input (for what it's worth):

1. Flexile, Newsvine, etc. -- They're nice and all but they're not Plastic. That's not a bad thing necessarily. If someone wants to wade into those waters and they like it, then something good has come out of the great Plastic collapse for some of us. I'd be more inclined to wait for the replacement to Plastic to go up or the more unlikely circumstance of carl returning from the desert to resurrect Plastic.

2. AIs on Plastic. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I hear that AIs are a waste of carbon and lead to trolling and stalking of account holders. A small price to pay for the right to post extremely inflammatory and controversial opinions without worrying about retribution. I like AIs. Hell, I posted frequently as an AI. I was an equal opportunity troll -- I'd attack the mayor, sue, GreenPolicy, dan duffy, snarkism, and so on whenever the mood struck. I wasn't so much a stalker as I was a balloon deflater for overinflated egos. I say keep the AIs and either block, ignore, or read at your peril.

3. Karma on Plastic. This is a killer as far as I'm concerned. I've been a member of Plastic for over three years and I never got into the three digits of karma. I never understood the need to get it, amass it or safeguard it. I understand how some people got their karma -- by being there at the beginning of each thread and posting something, anything that would be sure to scoop up a karma point or two. I also understand how others got it, by writing the stories that ran and posting a truckload of QLs. I'm not sure I respect the first set of karma getters, as it seems all they ever did was wait for a story to run and post something. I have nothing but love and admiration for the other set, cause they gave us the Plastic we all came to know and love. Decide for yourself where you fit into my scale of love and respect. But, I think the new site needs to deemphasize karma, if not get rid of it altogether. Bear with me, cause this is going to be profound. Why can't a comment be moderated up without karma going to whoever posted the comment? And give credit to the Quick Link and story submitters by running a weekly kudos or something for the total number of QLs and stories submitted. If we were doing what we were supposed to be doing by moderating up or down the comments rather than moderating up or down the account holders, perhaps we'd have a little more informed dialogue and a lot less karma whoring. Just a thought.

4. The infighting. It's gotta stop or we're back to square one at Plastic with the same tired voices protesting how a few are ruining the site countered by the same tired responses that it ain't true. Get over it and yourselves. There is no one Plastician that is all that important (other than carl on the old Plastic because he operated the on/off switch). The mayor and his many manifestations and sue and her grammatically anal write ups and GreenPolicy and his zany, irreverent, and tasteless write ups could leave tomorrow, never return and there would be replacements ready to go. Hell, chlim dropped off the radar and we still had stories to discuss. So, I'm thinking what's important is the vehicle for the discussion, not necessarily the talking heads inside.

That's about it from me. But what do I know? I'm just an anonymous idiot, after all.

6:24 AM

Anonymous ms_sue_collins said...

To the 6:24 AI who ended with a "What do I know" line:

I've already weighed in here and on wiki regarding the usefulness of the AI function. I think its benefits don't justify its use after what we've seen here. If you personally used it only for fear of retribution, I have to wonder just what retribution you were afraid of. If you were put off by what you consider overinflated egos, a very subjective and loaded description, why not address it with your username? If the person responds negatively, so what? Or maybe you might even start a valuable dialogue. But to go around like some self-appointed balloon buster just doesn't seem valuable, to me.

I agree with your sentiment regarding the infighting, even though I think you engaged a bit yourself. I'd say that the inexplicable hostility and incredible vilification has gone beyond squablling and entered a more pathological zone, although ever since the mayor's post here about taking personal threats very seriously, I have noticed a lessening.

But I respectfully suggest that no small amount of the fascination -- or in some cases, obsession -- some seem to have with the "talking heads" is of their own making. Some have felt pushed out of the way; some have felt karma-deprived; others just got really, really pissed in general.

The discussion is of course primary, but personalities will probably always get in the way. I think a system without karma but perhaps, as you suggest, some other type of kudos for contribution would help to some degree.

I love (optimistic present tense) Plastic. I enjoy the vast majority of members and look forward to their posts and to the dialogue. I hope Carl gets things in order. If not, I look forward to a "new" Plastic and plan to participate. Nothing anyone has said or will say will change that.


9:09 AM

Anonymous port1080 said...

The plastiverse chat page at has been updated and revised - it's still the same basic java engine, but with auto-login, larger font size, and some other cosmetic changes. If you are having problems accessing the chat through this applet, please let me know through e-mailing port1080 (at) gmail (dot) com.

10:12 AM

Anonymous phoney_ms_sue said...

I'd take ms_sue's delicate protestations with a giant boulder of salt, as hers is the most heavily inflated ego, IMHO.

Why do people with usernames care to use AI? The same reason there are anonymous tip lines and nomes de plume. Sometimes people don't want to deal with the hassle of an unpopular opinion. Nobody acts with more hostility than he who is at the top of the hill. I don't believe the real ms_sue had been above using the AI username, either, so as usual, her harping rings hollow.

In the spirit of a viral idea: I exhort somebody, or I'll do it, to create a public username with a public password at wherever the next meeting place the plastic community happens to be. (What tortured grammar!) If the next place doesn't have the AI function, that is. The concept is too valuable to be lost.

Mayorbob, once again I say that I have no problem with you. Your behavior is disengenuous and I pointed it out. End of story. Your nut stalker is somebody else.

10:30 AM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is too funny for words. I'm talking about a person who registers an account with the obvious intent of trolling another person who lectures her on the subject of disingenuity.

10:41 AM

Blogger permazorch said...

I guess I'm the fool who says: I like Plastic as is. I don't block A.I.'s or any identified entities. I believe we need the A.I. function. Someday I might want to weigh in on my adventures at the abortion clinic, or talk about the time I found a chicken bone in my Campbell's vegetarian vegtable soup. It serves a purpose. Too bad it's utilized as a snark-bomb, mostly. How does one respond to mayorbob + ms. sue haters/trollers/stalkers? As the great and wrathful Khan said, "Let them eat static". If some choose to behave childishly, treat them like children. Ohhh, man. I'm a total karma whore now, but the first 4 years or so, I mainly lurked. There should NOT be a minimum karma to read the stories. Remember the meta snafu regarding the first outage? Unacceptable. All are welcome, right? Don't penalize the terminal newbie, 'cause most of the time, that's me.

10:54 AM

Anonymous ms_sue_collins said...

To the person who now professes to have nothing against MAYORBOB personally and who, in response to my comments about enjoying Plastic and my newfound belief that we should a trial period without the AI function, has made the following remarks:

Cram it, ms_sue. As far as I'm concerned, you and mayormazdasecret are solely responsible for the figurative demise of plastic that preceeded (perhaps precipitated?) the actual demise of plastic....

Of course you are in favor of eliminating the AI, tyrants always eventually suppress dissent...

What did I do to help plastic? I joined on day ONE and submitted stories and made comments and contributed money when carl asked for it. And I got pushed away when "you" and ms_sue took over. So yes, I don't like you. Not for the reasons you seem to think, though. Only because you ruined plastic by example...

See, that's where you are mistaken. I enjoy this....

I can say only that your words speak as loudly as your assumed name does. You have every right to your opinion about any of us, about how you were pushed aside somehow, and about the true reason for the demise of Plastic. Just know that as we speak, you (and others who harbor such inexplicable hostility) are alone and that the pleasure you obviously derive from such paranoia and ill-founded resentment are not shared by most, who simply want to see Plastic up and running. Too many urgent events demand our attention -- and our comments. Surely I can't be the only one who's going through "I blame Bush" withdrawal.

But if you or anyone else insist on this pettiness, why not direct it at me personally via e-mail. Maybe we could come to some resolution that would at least be a beginning to an end of this public melodrama. Let me know whether you accept, and I will gladly post my address if you don't already have it.


1:28 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Permazorch, started reading the Tractatus yet? I'm rather curious what you made of it.

1:49 PM

Blogger permazorch said...

No, no Tractatus, yet. I'm sorry I'm such a lameass. Not only am I a lameass, but work's been busy and a brand new human (gender unknown) is due any day now. We're (momma, especially) anxious and two days overdue. Some people go a month past... Yikes! It's difficult for people like us, raised in a culture where instant gratification takes a bit too long.
(insert winking, smiling emoticon, here)

I need more coffee... and beer!

ms_sue: stop talking to the crazies!

2:13 PM

Anonymous tomc said...

ms_sue: stop talking to the crazies!

...but calling their bluff is sweet...

2:37 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Permazorch, in that case you have my full understanding for not wanting to spend time reading 19th century philosophical logic. Congratulations!

2:37 PM

Anonymous phoney_ms_sue said...

Way to totally not get it, ms_sue. This isn't about you. It's about forming a new community from the ashes of another. It about publicly discussing the pros and cons of the format of the community. Unlike you, I'm not looking for new email pals.

Too many urgent events demand our attention -- and our comments. Surely I can't be the only one who's going through "I blame Bush" withdrawal.

I don't see anyone demanding your comment on anything. But *I'm* the one with problems...?

See, the nice thing about the AI, or anyone, is that you can block it. Or just not read it. But you obviously prefer the autocratic approach, wishing to control everyone else's experience rather than not be offended by differing opinions.

tomc: calling what bluff? where did I bluff?

AI 10:41: I never said the account should be for trolling. Just anonymity, whatever the purpose. Just as you have chosen to exercise.

3:10 PM

Blogger A Humorless Cretin said...

Surely I can't be the only one who's going through "I blame Bush" withdrawal.

Here, you go, ms_sue... Plastic is down, and I blame Bush. Obviously, carl discovered that the NSA (under Bush's direct orders) were trying to hack Plastic's database so they could round all of us up. (Whether for the new camps or to be the new brain trust I leave to your personal level of paranoia. I know what *my* tinfoil hat tells me.)

Wow, I really need to lay off the dKos. :P

3:16 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mayorbob, ms_sue, I love you. Don't let the bastards grind you down.

3:17 PM

Anonymous ms_sue_collins said...

This isn't about you.

Plastic? No, plastic's not about me any more than it is about you. But your posts here are obviously about me, given your handle and continued attacks and your twisted parsing of my words.

I don't see anyone demanding your comment on anything. But *I'm* the one with problems...?

That read "our" comments, not "my" comments.

See, the nice thing about the AI, or anyone, is that you can block it. Or just not read it. But you obviously prefer the autocratic approach, wishing to control everyone else's experience rather than not be offended by differing opinions.

If I were offended by differing opinions, I wouldn't have ever become involved with Plastic or be upset over this long hiatus. And my opinion is that we should a trial period without the AI function to see whether we like it better, to see whether it fosters a better "community" of which you speak. Just my opinion, which differs from yours.

Unlike you, I'm not looking for new email pals.

I will take that as a declination of my sincere attempt to reach some kind of understanding. I'm sorry about that.

I take full responsibility for any of my words or deeds over the last few years on Plastic that have made you and others so angry that you have felt the need to post anonymous attacks ranging from mildly insulting to, from some AIs, truly sickening. I sincerely apologize if I have hurt or humiliated anyone with any of my comments.

I look forward to the revival of Plastic in whatever form it takes.


4:05 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey, I'm anonymous 10:41 and this goes out to phoney_ms_sue -- BULLSHIT. Let me spell that out so you might understand that B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T. If you're not trolling and merely seeking anonymity, why register a handle such as you're using? Maybe it's because you do want the anonymity, but that's secondary to the trolling. Face it sonny, you don't have the balls to come out from behind that user account and tell ms_sue to cram it with your real account. At least when I'm AIing it up, I have a point to make and it's usually that somebody is seriously full of shit. Like, right now. Now go clean up your room, your mommy is seriously pissed at you.

4:22 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey, I'm anonymous 10:41 and this goes out to phoney_ms_sue -- BULLSHIT. Let me spell that out so you might understand that B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T. If you're not trolling and merely seeking anonymity, why register a handle such as you're using? Maybe it's because you do want the anonymity, but that's secondary to the trolling. Face it sonny, you don't have the balls to come out from behind that user account and tell ms_sue to cram it with your real account. At least when I'm AIing it up, I have a point to make and it's usually that somebody is seriously full of shit. Like, right now. Now go clean up your room, your mommy is seriously pissed at you.

4:22 PM

Anonymous you_can_type_any_name_you_want said...

ai 10:41 and 4:22: HA! Very funny. Hopefully, you'll have time to quick sucking off carl and ms_sue to learn how not to double post.

4:52 PM

Anonymous you_all_make_me_vomit_in_terror said...

Some people willfully misunderstand the effect of their own words and behavior. Some people protest greatly when confronted with their own words and behavior. On the net we consist solely of words and behavior.

Point? Do I have to have one?

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